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Japonsky: Ukraine needs equipment, weapons and support from allies

„Wizyta miała być nie tylko symbolem, ale przede wszystkim rozmową o tym, jak wygląda sytuacja Ukrainy, jakie są jej aktualne potrzeby. Wbrew dość pozytywnym militarnym nastrojom ostatnich dni, kiedy Rosja zaczęła wycofywać się spod Kijowa, to w rzeczywistości sytuacja jest dużo poważniejsza” - powiedział w Porannej rozmowie w RMF FM Paweł Jabłoński, wiceminister spraw zagranicznych komentując wizytę Andrzeja Dudy w Kijowie.

The visit was supposed not just to be a symbol, but most of all a conversation about Ukraine’s current situation and needs. Contrary to the rather positive military mood of the past days, when Russia began to withdraw from Kyiv, the situation was actually much more serious,” Deputy Foreign Minister Pawek Jabunsky, commenting on Andrei Duda’s visit to Kyiv, said in a morning interview at RMF FM.

In eastern Ukraine, there will be a strong tank battle in the coming days, perhaps the largest battle of its kind since World War II, and today there is a need for talks with Ukraine about what Ukraine needs to win in this battle. This was the main topic of talks between the presidents in Kyiv – Delivery of the diplomat.

Ukraine needs equipment, weapons, and support from allies, also when it comes to intelligence cooperation, which of course happens all the time. We are still dealing with the votes in Western Europe, as well as in our part of Europe, to end this war as soon as possible at any cost, to hold talks with Russia, regardless of whether Ukraine won or lost. – said his guest, Robert Mazurk.

There is room for Ukraine in NATO if Ukraine decides to do so. NATO has a very clear clause in the North Atlantic Treaty to open up to accepting more countries in Europe. No person or anything can prevent any country from joining the alliance if the will of the allies and the state that wants to join. – Paweł Jabłoński said in the online part of the morning conversation on RMF FM radio.

The Deputy Foreign Minister was also asked about the position of a close ally of the PiS, Viktor Orban, on the war in Ukraine. I am very disappointed in this on the level of emotions and feelings. This is a certain Hungarian policy that we’ve been dealing with for some time – said Jabłoński. But the deputy head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs hopes that “the stage of political cooperation will not end.” Just like the political cooperation between Poland and Germany did not end. We are still doing very strong diplomatic work to change Hungarian, German, Austrian and Dutch policies, because there are many countries that oppose sanctions. – added.

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Robert Mazurk, RMF FM: Andrei Duda has just returned from Kyiv with the presidents of the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Was this visit intended to be a symbol of our unity? Did it also have a specific dimension? We offered the Ukrainians something that we haven’t shown them yet?

Bowie Japonsky: It was supposed to be just a symbol of unity, it was certainly a symbol of unity, but it was also supposed to be, above all, an opportunity to talk about the current situation and what the current needs of Ukraine are. Because the war, in contrast to the completely positive military mood of the past days, when Russia began to withdraw from Kyiv, to the positive mood in the military sense, of course, and then the crimes committed by Russia began to unfold … Here, in principle, it can be said that the main part From the attack was repulsed. In fact, unfortunately, the situation is more serious. In eastern Ukraine, there is likely to be a strong tank battle in the coming days, possibly the largest tank battle in Europe since World War II. Today, talking with Ukraine about what Ukraine simply needs to win this battle was the main topic of talks between presidents in Kyiv.

Indeed, what might Ukraine need? I need equipment.

It needs equipment, it needs weapons, and it needs support from allies as well when it comes to intelligence cooperation – of course, that always happens. But it must continue because it all depends on the political will. If we have a strong and resolute alliance like NATO, the European Union is ready to continue providing this support. It is so far, and it’s very well that it happened, but it hasn’t been presented once and for all. All the time we are dealing with different kinds of voices, also in Western Europe, also in our part of Europe, who say that this war must be ended as quickly as possible at any cost, so that we can start talks with Russia, it does not matter if Ukraine wins or I lost.

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What does success mean for Ukraine? Of course, we are not talking about the obvious success that would be the recovery of Donbass, Luhansk, and perhaps even Crimea, because this is obvious. But what is the real success of Ukraine in this war?

First of all, defend your territory and here we are talking about land as understood by international law. Ukraine is a country that was attacked by Russia in 2014. Then, of course, this stage of the most active armed conflict for many years did not exist, but border incidents.

Let me talk about it, but according to this definition, it was Ukraine that lost this war in 2014, when Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk were occupied.

This is exactly what it was. In 2014, the state of the Ukrainian army, and today the Ukrainians themselves admit, was terrible, it was destroyed by the long years of the rule of the former team, and perhaps also the reason why Putin thinks that he will deal with Ukraine very easily now. Today, Ukraine needs help to counter the offensive it is dealing with in the east, to be able to force the Russian army out of its territory, and to get the Russians to respond to what they have done. They were responsible for the crimes, they were responsible for the destruction of the country, and they paid for the consequences of this war.

German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier wanted to go to Kyiv, and he was in Poland on Tuesday. On Wednesday, when the heads of the Baltic states and President Duda went to Kyiv, he did not go there, because, as he himself admitted, it seemed that they did not want him there. What happened?

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Decisions regarding a visit of any president or leaders to Ukraine are made between these leaders and Ukraine. We do not interfere in these decisions. This is the absolute sovereign decision of President Zelensky. I think it can be understood in the sense that the name of the head of Germany is associated, for example, with the Ukrainians with the so-called Steinmeier formula, which, to some extent, would allow the partition of eastern Ukraine, which is probably why he is not such a prominent figure there.

The point was that the Ukrainians could afford the visit, and even strongly urge it to happen, Chancellor Schulz, but they did not want President Steinmeier, who, as head of the Foreign Ministry, was in favor of rapprochement. With Russia, building Nord Stream 2 and all these kinds of gestures?

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